Comments Thread For: Daily Bread Mailbag: Bivol Shocks Canelo, Crawford-Spence, Inoue-Donaire, More

[BIGPOPPAPUMP]

The Daily Bread Mailbag returns with Stephen "Breadman" Edwards tackling topics such as Canelo Alvarez's big loss to Dmitry Bivoil, the Inoue vs. Donaire rematch, Terence Crawford vs. Errol Spence, pound-for-pound list, bad scoring by judges and more.
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[Boxing Logic]

That Bivol vs Canelo fight was super suspicious to me. Breadman referenced the Donaire vs Montiel fight. Here is Nonito Donaire at 122 pounds throwing a counter left hook the same way Bivol often does, backing up and being defensive as he throws it, and yet there is a much bigger impact (which you can see but also hear) even at 122 pounds, than Bivol's punches vs Canelo at 175. https://youtu.be/WexSx1WiTFI?t=31. Montiel was trying to punch back so you can say that's part of it, but it's still anachronistic in my opinion. And I'm not saying 122 pounds fights can't have as big punch impacts, relatively speaking, as 175, either, since both guys are still in the same weight class as each other, but Bivol is a bigger man than Canelo, just like Donaire is bigger than Montiel, and look at this jab by the smaller man Montiel, not as big a puncher at that weight as Bivol at 175, on the much bigger Donaire, which is not in an exchange, and which Donaire is able to see and try to avoid same as Canelo vs Bivol, and yet little Montiel's jab has a much bigger impact, at 122 lbs, vs Donaire, than Bivol's same jabs vs Canelo. https://youtu.be/WexSx1WiTFI?t=84. Very strange.

It still wouldn't explain these oddities in the Canelo vs Bivol fight, but one thing I can say for sure, at least for the quality of the television experience, is that DAZN needs to turn the punch volume up. You couldn't really hear the punches, at least not Bivol's. This has happened even on HBO (except the crowd was loud or something, so there was an actual reason), and whenever that happens, it makes the fight half as exciting because now the punches don't register. It's like if you turned the sound effects down on an action movie, it doesn't really feel real anymore, or even cinema real. You need the sound effects.

[JuniorTorres720]

Canelo is going to have to EARN every victory from here on out. I think he can but the question is will he have the will power.

That’s why losses aren’t everything for me. I wanna see how a fighter bounces back. Is he truly great? As Pacquiao said, “Real fighters get back up and keep fighting.” I’m excited to see Canelo’s next chapter. Let’s see if he truly is great.

[The Old LefHook]

Uh-oh. Kiss ass alert for this author, making every excuse in the world for the rottenness of boxing.

[ShoulderRoll]

I'm glad Bread said it. Of course size mattered in the Bivol vs Canelo fight. Then on top of that the skill and the styles came into play too.

Everything counted, it was the total package that beat Canelo.

[whirlout]

I disagree. Usyk’s 5 best win is better than Crawfords 5 best win by a thousand miles. Let it sink in, Porter is Crawfords best win. Most would say Porter was a bit down hill too and Gambia simply doesn’t belong in that weight class. Gassier, Joshua are way better than any wins on Crawfords resume.

[Rec28]

That Bivol vs Canelo fight was super suspicious to me. Breadman referenced the Donaire vs Montiel fight. Here is Nonito Donaire at 122 pounds throwing a counter left hook the same way Bivol often does, backing up and being defensive as he throws it, and yet there is a much bigger impact (which you can see but also hear) even at 122 pounds, than Bivol's punches vs Canelo at 175. https://youtu.be/WexSx1WiTFI?t=31. Montiel was trying to punch back so you can say that's part of it, but it's still anachronistic in my opinion. And I'm not saying 122 pounds fights can't have as big punch impacts, relatively speaking, as 175, either, since both guys are still in the same weight class as each other, but Bivol is a bigger man than Canelo, just like Donaire is bigger than Montiel, and look at this jab by the smaller man Montiel, not as big a puncher at that weight as Bivol at 175, on the much bigger Donaire, which is not in an exchange, and which Donaire is able to see and try to avoid same as Canelo vs Bivol, and yet little Montiel's jab has a much bigger impact, at 122 lbs, vs Donaire, than Bivol's same jabs vs Canelo. https://youtu.be/WexSx1WiTFI?t=84. Very strange.

It still wouldn't explain these oddities in the Canelo vs Bivol fight, but one thing I can say for sure, at least for the quality of the television experience, is that DAZN needs to turn the punch volume up. You couldn't really hear the punches, at least not Bivol's. This has happened even on HBO (except the crowd was loud or something, so there was an actual reason), and whenever that happens, it makes the fight half as exciting because now the punches don't register. It's like if you turned the sound effects down on an action movie, it doesn't really feel real anymore, or even cinema real. You need the sound effects.

Agree with your volume point, the old days the volume of the punches were at a right level along with the crowd being oh so very loud, unlike todays current audience due to the boxing public having changed since dramatically, also the arena and crowds seemed to be built or reconstructed differently these times,

Just compare Mannys fight along with Spence's fight at Dallas in the same arena, In Manny's fight the ring seemed larger, so did the space overall throughout the arena and also where the people were seated, allot more big time feel to it, looked and felt larger in every way including the spacing in the seats, the Arena's seem to be shivereled up now so you would expect the crowd to be even more louder and clearer compared with the then crazy and rowdyness of the old crowds which made the fight a whole better,

Dazn do have to fix that up as you said, you mentioned HBO Having had that same issue but that was more towards their last 5-7 years of their run, where their production quality took a big hit along with the arenas where the fights were happening, perhaps the uninteresting matchups also supported that outcome.

[The D3vil]

I disagree. Usyk’s 5 best win is better than Crawfords 5 best win by a thousand miles. Let it sink in, Porter is Crawfords best win. Most would say Porter was a bit down hill too and Gambia simply doesn’t belong in that weight class. Gassier, Joshua are way better than any wins on Crawfords resume.

First off,Shawn Porter's going to end up in the Hall of Fame at some point, so that's nothing to sneeze at and only Crawford stopped him.

We don't know if any of Usyk's victories are going to the IBHOF yet.

Joshua has a shot, but after embarrassing losses to Ruiz & Usyk, he may be waiting for a while if he doesn't do something big. Only Fury's a shoo-in at this point.

Gamboa was undefeated, a multiweight champion, and on pound for pound lists when he fought Crawford & won the first 4 rounds against him before getting stopped. Let's not sell Gamboa short.

Porter & Gamboa were both more well regarded than anybody Joshua has beat, except Vlad who was 42, had already been embarrassed by Fury, and hadn't fought in 2 years when they fought and still almost stopped Joshua multiple times in that fight.

[Cypocryphy]

First off,Shawn Porter's going to end up in the Hall of Fame at some point, so that's nothing to sneeze at and only Crawford stopped him.

We don't know if any of Usyk's victories are going to the IBHOF yet.

Joshua has a shot, but after embarrassing losses to Ruiz & Usyk, he may be waiting for a while if he doesn't do something big. Only Fury's a shoo-in at this point.

Gamboa was undefeated, a multiweight champion, and on pound for pound lists when he fought Crawford & won the first 4 rounds against him before getting stopped. Let's not sell Gamboa short.

Porter & Gamboa were both more well regarded than anybody Joshua has beat, except Vlad who was 42, had already been embarrassed by Fury, and hadn't fought in 2 years when they fought and still almost stopped Joshua multiple times in that fight.

Crawfords undisputed run looks like dog **** now. They've all lost horribly, continuously. Usyk's undisputed run is standing the test of time, as all fighters haven't lost since Usyk. Usyk is fighting in the greatest division of the sport, a division that has no weight limits. Usyk strides were Giants roam.

It's not comparable.

[Cypocryphy]

So I will state both. In scoring a fight it’s time we get 5 judges. 4 judges at ring side and 1 judge watching on a monitor that has the same feed as the viewing audience.

OMG. I've been saying this forever. So glad to hear you echo this. It IS TIME!


He kept his COMPOSURE and he went from running Canelo from hot to cold and from cold to hot. People say his size didn’t matter because it was skill thing. But everything counted. Just because he’s a boxer, it doesn’t mean his size didn’t matter.

Ali boxed Bob Foster also. But when you’re bigger and have more physicality, it allows you to take chances as the boxer, you normally wouldn’t if the fighter was your size. Bivol gained confidence throughout the fight. At a certain point he realized something. It wasn’t so much Canelo’s size, it was his range.

But was it really a size thing? Bivol is four inches taller and has a one and a half inch reach advantage. Okay. Fine. But that's not a lot, nothing extreme, nothing that any boxer has not had to deal with before. All of Canelo's past four opponents had a much larger reach advantage over him. What matters is weight because weight helps you (1) absorb punches and (2) punch harder. Weight matters, which is why we have weight classes. Bivol came in at 184 pounds on fight night. They were trying to find out what Canelo weighed on fight night but with little success. I can't imagine Canelo not gaining a pound after the weigh-in, so we can assume that he gained five to ten pounds. That would possibly make Bivol four pounds heavier, max, on fight night. That's not anything any other boxer has not had to deal with.

So, the point being is that it seems to be that skill was the determining factor for Bivol's victory. Canelo became predictable, with hitting the arms, swinging for the fences, and walking you down with a high-guard, looking to counter. All so very predictable, and Bivol (and his team) knew this. They developed the winning plan, and Bivol executed it to perfection. It's that simple. Claiming size advantage is disingenuous and inaccurate in this instance.