The Daily Bread Mailbag returns with Stephen "Breadman" Edwards tackling topics such as the war between Jaime Munguia and Sergiy Derevyanchenko, Saul 'Canelo' Alvarez, Teddy Atlas pushing for a nation commission, Tim Tszyu vs. Jermell Charlo, Devin Haney, Regis Prograis, and more.
You haven't had any mails on Munguia (or at least responded to them), I suspect many people, like me, thought it was another gimme fight and the programming clash with Taylor-Lopez didn't help. Firstly, props to Derevyanchenko (Derev) what an effort and what a man, he supposedly turned down additional money to accept a reduced 10 rounds. Have you ever heard of such a thing before? In hindsight it was to his detriment, although hypothetically Munguia could've stepped on the gas earlier. Derev needs to get his flowers, he's never been the beneficiary of a single close fight and I've never heard him overly bitter and he's given everyone who's fought him hell. The type of fighter that you mention will be disregarded in the future when people see his record without context. I hope that he's been looked after financially. He seemed small at SMW (although that was next to Munguia). With MW in flux do you think he can manage one more title push? Do you give him a chance against Lara or Alimkhanuly? At his age and stage of career, I'd like to see him and Lara.
As much credit as I give Derev, it does show why Munguia's handlers have been so reluctant to step up his competition. The fight was like a rorschach test, you can see what you want, either he proved that he's a hype job with a protected record or he's just come through fire and closed the show in style. It's likely a bit of both. What did you think of Munguai's performance? What do you make of Mungai's career to date? His run at MW has been slightly odd to me. It seems he's staying at the weight but SMW is stacked compared to MW. It's been 4 years since he last held a belt and that was at JMW . . .What percentage would you give Munguai in each fight if he were to fight against Ryder, Morrell or Benavidez next?
Bread’s Response: Man I’m gutted for Sergey Devrenchenko and his trainers Andre Rozier and Gary Starks, naked eye I thought he won 7 rounds but I would have to score with a pen and pad to be sure. But from my point of view he outpunched, outslugged and out boxed Munguia despite, Munguia’s late round push. It was predictable of who would win the decision. The A side. Those last rounds shouldn’t count any more than SD’s earlier rounds. It’s 12 individual rounds, not a big 36 minute fight right.
Munguia is a solid fighter. He has a nice punch. He’s mean. He’s aggressive. But let’s be honest. Has an undefeated champion, from a division below ever been moved this slow after moving up and being the mandatory? If they have, I haven’t seen it. He last fought at 154 in 2019 when he was the WBO champion and since he’s had about 7 or 8 fights at 160 or 168 all non title. All handpicked fights. He also was going to fight GGG and for some odd reason he was not approved. Then he fought Sadam Ali at 154 and smoked him. I don’t know if any other fighter in history has had this type of privilege and good fortune. It makes you wonder.
From what I can see he’s good and improving. He’s not as good as say Canelo the other Mexican star close to his weight but he’s good. He’s not as good as Benavidez who’s close to his age. But he does have some talent. I suspect his brain trust are going to keep moving him vs the type of opponents he’s been fighting. I suspect he’s going to fight Edgar Berlanga very soon. Or if what they feel is a vulnerable fighter somehow wins a world title at 160 or 168 look for Munguia's team to make a huge offer to get the fight.
I think they miscalculated what Devrenchenko had left. Not only did Devrenchenko almost win. He almost stopped Munguia which would have been a disaster in terms of matchmaking. Munguia has turned down title shots vs Janibek and Andrade. He wasn’t approved for GGG. And to handpick Devrenchenko and get stopped would have been career altering to say the least.
I have seen fighters turn down money for less rounds. Devrenchenko wanted to win. I don’t blame him. If a fighter ask for less rounds it implies he isn’t in shape. Hindsight is 20/20….SD has been taken care of. He got big money to face GGG on DAZN. Reports of 4M-5M. That’s a ton of money for a fighter who has never been champion and doesn’t have a maniacal fan base. He also has gotten some huge opportunities. And like you said he’s never got the benefit of doubt on any close decision. The only fight he ever clearly lost was to Jermall Charlo. Very misfortunate. SD Reminds me of Rocky Lockridge. A superb fighter at 130lbs of the 1980s. Lockridge won a title but he’s a couple of close decisions away from being a HOF. Check out his resume. It’s just sick.
I think Munguia showed heart, determination and good recovery powers. I think he’s a better action fighter than he is a P4P level type of talent. If you get what I mean. Oscar De La Hoya and Bernard Hopkins the Golden Boy Promotions reps are great HOF, P4P fighters. Munguia is more of an action star who needs special matchmaking. I’m not trying to criticize Munguia, I’m just stating where he is as a fighter at this point.
I would pick Munguia to beat John Ryder. His chances would be about 70%.
I think David Benavidez would stop him brutally. It would be entertaining because Munguia has heart but not too competitive. Munguia chances of winning are about 20%.
Munguia has about a 15% chance to beat David Morrell. Morrell could beat Munguia slugging. Or he could just box him and not get touched. That would not be a competitive fight.
I think we could see the Ryder fight. To put things in perspective Munguia vs Shane Mosley Jr is a 50/50 fight right now in my opinion.
I haven't seen your take on it so I wanted to ask: What is your view on a potential National Commission/Teddy Atlas' petition? Are there any specific points that you would like to see implanted in particular? As a person with considerable knowledge, insider perspective and integrity your input would be extremely valuable.
Bread’s Response: If Teddy Atlas petitioned for a national commission I would support 100%.
Yes several points. ...Strict time limits of champions defending titles.
Stronger suspensions for PED cheats.
Suspensions for bad judging.
5 judges instead of 3.
Sanctioning bodies being forced to make better mandatories and enforcing them by stripping champions if they don’t defend against the mandatory within 6 months.
You said Josh Taylor looked dried out, from the fight it looks like you were right when to me I thought he actually looked ok. Mostly because his eyes didn't look shrunken in and he had a lot of energy. I also always look for if skin is pale and dry or shiny. Can you enlighten us on what you look for at a weigh-in? Has your gameplan going into a fight ever changed based on how your guy or the other guy made weight? Does how a fighter looks the week of at press conference etc. have any relevance? Obviously without giving too many of your secrets away that opposing teams may try and trick/use against you.
You might not think you're a genius but you are on a Grandmaster level when it comes to breaking down a fight. Objectivity is fundamental and part of objectivity is knowing your own biases. Some prefer boxers some prefer punchers etc. - it would always crack me up when George Foreman would commentate that the fight could still be changed by one punch, almost no matter what was happening at times! I personally dislike picking against the more talented fighter and it has caused me to over-correct the other way a few times.
The only time I have seen you be off on a prediction is with Wilder-Fury 2+3. I noticed that a lot of US-based picked Wilder, it's a bias I've noticed you guys can have to almost automatically favour the American at times. I'm not saying that's why you picked Wilder but it was a reason with a lot of people I noticed, whether they are aware of it or not. It's a little weird to explain but from the outside looking in it's a part of your culture. For example, I could probably tell 10 Americans where I'm from and 8 or 9 would ask me what state that's in, when I'm in an entirely different country! It's like you guys have everything there so you forget the rest of the world even exists or may be superior in certain aspects. Taylor has said that he's friends for life with Joe Mcnally, and Mcnally said vice-versa, so it seems he's staying with him until the end of his career now. Jared Anderson and David Morrell might make my list of most talented fighters soon. Sun Tzu quote about winning with ease is deep, and might be why some fighters don't get as much praise as others. As always print all/part/none at your discretion.
Thanks and Much Respect,
Bread’s Response: Without giving away too much. I look for how a fighter talks during fight week. If his voice is weak and his response time is slow it tells me he’s drained. Yes I have changed gameplans and I have enforced some even more once I saw how a fighter put the weight back on.
Jared Anderson and David Morrell are super talented..
One of the ways I can determine if a fighter has slipped is when he stops winning with ease. Did you see how hard GGG had to fight leading up to the 3rd Canelo fight? Did you see Canelo’s moments vs John Ryder? Canelo would have beaten Ryder with EASE in 2021…..
How good is Tim Tszyu?
When Jermell Charlo was first ordered to make a defense against him, I dismissed Tszyu as another boxer living off a famous last name. I don’t believe that anymore. He’s looked like a world beater in his last two fights. What are your thoughts on Tszyu’s ability?
Thank you so much!-Chris
Bread’s Response: Very rarely in this era have we seen a never before champion who seems elite vs a HOF level established champion. Charlo vs Tszyu is an excellent match up and big fight. Most times the fighter who hasn’t been champion before sort of goes through a formality with a lesser champion to get his belt. But not in this case.
Let’s go back to the 1960s and move forward so I can give context. Sonny Liston vs Muhammad Ali. Liston was the HOF level fighter vs an elite #1 contender.
Nino Benvenuti vs Carlos Monzon 1970
Ken Buchanon vs Roberto Duran 1972
Joe Frazier vs George Foreman 1973
Wilfred Benitez vs Ray Leonard 1979
Ruben Olivares vs Alexis Arguello 1974
Pipino Cuevas vs Tommy Hearns 1980
Antonio Cervantes vs Aaron Pryor 1980
Mike McCallum vs Julian Jackson 1986
Julian Jackson vs Terry Norris 1989
Danny Lopez vs Salvador Sanchez 1980
Wilfredo Gomez vs Azumah Nelson 1984
Evander Holyfield vs Riddick Bowe 1992
Eddie Mustafa Muhammad vs Michael Spinks 1981
Lennox Lewis vs David Tua 2000
Marvin Hagler vs John Mugabi 1986
Genaro Hernandez vs Floyd Mayweather 1998
Wladimir Klitschko vs Tyson Fury 2015
Bernard Hopkins vs Jermaine Taylor 2005
Jermaine Taylorvs Kelly Pavlik 2007
Mikkell Kessler vs Andre Ward 2009
Michael Nunn vs James Toney 1991
Kostya Tszyu vs Ricky Hatton 2005
As you can see this was more common 2 decades ago. We don’t get these match ups anymore very often. Tim Tszyu has improved drastically since the Terrell Gausha fight. What I saw from Tszyu vs Harrison and Ocampo lets me know he’s really working on his craft. He’s clever. He’s strong. He’s reactive. But most of all he’s not a mindless slugger. He’s boxing going forward and actually counterpunching as he makes the ring smaller.
Jermell Charlo has his work cut out for him. This is a real fight. Charlo is still the favorite because it seems like you can line Tszyu up with big shots and Mell Charlo is a big shot shooter. Charlo is also clutch and he gets better as the fight goes on. But Tszyu will have the blueprint of how to attack Charlo giving the trouble Charlo had with Brian Castano. Tszyu seems like a better puncher and better trap setter than Castano. I love the fight and I think Charlo has to be on his A game to win. I’ve never seen Charlo rusty. Lay offs don’t seem to bother him so that’s a plus. But each fight and each time off is different. I love the fight and I love the match up. At this point I think it’s 60/40 in Charlo’s favor but it’s REAL.
What up Mr. Breadman?
A few quick subjects and I will be on my way. First off, to me the hate for Devin Haney is just now more in the open. I remember when he first got his "email" championship and had to fight to make the real WBC belt legit. Win after win he would then hear the chatter regarding his power and his boring style. As a fan of boxing and being a Devin Haney supporter it was hard to hear the "hater" excuses of Haney and his lack of power and "runner" type of style. I think there is a bias towards him within the even die hard boxing fans and to me this perpetuates the narrative of why today's fighters are so scared to as Thurman once said "not afraid to let go my "0"... The Loma controversy probably did a lot for Haney because he now can hype up the "bad guy" role. I am always happy for any press for my fav fighters but to me it seems because Haney did not come from the same streets and Gervantae Davis that he is "Soft" and does not get the hardcore support from all of the hip hop casual fans. My dad passed away last year and worked his a$$ off to provide for me. Half of my life I lived in Compton CA and always heard whispers from haters in my neighborhood that I was not as real because my Daddy protected me. Since when is having a protective dad a bad thing?
One side of the media and fans support Haney and his Dad while another side hates the Haney's and Teo Lopez and his Dad for just being a Father. So let’s just hope Devin gets the “bag” and continues to build his legacy. He now has a big “X” on his back with options. If he can have a solid career let alone a trip to the HOF it will all have been worth the ridicule.
Keep up the good work Sir I always appreciate your takes ….Michael “Expedite” Blount
Bread’s Response: I like Devin Haney. I’m protective over my kids the same way Bill is protective over Devin. I don’t get the street credibility bs that plagues our culture. Devin is not a drug dealer, he’s a professional boxer. Who cares if his dad protected him? I also never understood why people called him an email champion. He asked for the WBC title shot. He went through the proper legal steps and when he didn’t get to fight Loma they gave him the belt. He was rewarded rightfully for pursuing the champion. He didn't ask to get the belt through email. He asked to fight Loma who had the belt. That specific criticism was unfair.
Regardless of who you think would have won in 2019. Devin wanted the fight. I respect that because 4 years ago, Devin may not have been ready for Loma but he was confident enough to go after him. I have ZERO issues with Devin Haney. He has heart. He takes big fights. He doesn’t hide behind barricades. And he’s game in the ring. Devin fought through some tough spots vs Loma and responded like a champion. People can say what they want but Devin is a real fighter.
He already has been getting the bag (paid well). He’s going to continue to do so. I think he fights a big fight at 140lbs. Not sure who but I see a big fight coming. Maybe vs Regis Prograis.
I know when fighters duck smoke and I know when politics get in the way. I may not say it openly but I know it. Devin Haney does not duck smoke and that’s rare in this era. I appreciate, like and respect the kid.
Dear Mr. Edwards,
If Teofimo Lopez never fights again, is he HOF bound? Two decisive wins in two divisions over the recognized lineal champion as an underdog. Massive quality over quantity?
Bread’s Response: He’s making a very strong case but I don’t think he’s going to retire and I would like to see him get one more big win before I stamp him a lock for the HOF.
I am a fan of the sport of boxing. I buy all the pay per views and I subscribe to the apps and channels needed to get my fix. Lots of backyard BBQs with family and friends on fight night. However, like a lot of fans, I have never actually stepped in a ring or physically participated in the sport. Question: I have a 10-year old son who is deaf and he wants to start boxing. He has no other disabilities, does well in school, and although I might be prejudiced as his father, he looks just like any other kid his age. The only difference is he can't hear. There are local gyms with junior boxing, but since you're a professional trainer, I would like your take on this before I make a decision. What are the concerns I should have? Could he participate in competitions if he takes a liking to it, or are there just too many sounds (such as the bell and referee instructions) that he would be required to hear that would simply make this unsafe and not realistically possible? Have you ever trained boxers who are deaf or hard of hearing?
Bread’s Response: I have never trained a deaf boxer but there have been some successful ones. I always look at the glass as half full and I think your son being deaf can have some benefits. One of the main ones is fighters won’t be able to trash talk him. If he has no other disabilities and he wants to box I don’t see why you can’t start him out. The only issue would be can you find a trainer who can communicate with him. If you can’t, I suggest you train him and you guys grow together. Good blessings to you and your son.
I read an article where you were quoted saying "I don’t hang out in the gyms,”. You train your fighter, then promptly leave when the session is over. Was there a time in the past when you did hangout in the gyms more often? I am more curious about your transition from athlete to a coach. I know you spent time around some well known coaches such as Naazim Richardson. Did you ever start off assisting or coaching a junior program? Adult classes? Did it just organically happen and you forged your own spot? Did you begin working with a select group of fighters? Would be interested to hear how your coaching pathway was formed during that time in your life.
Cheers! Brent from Canada
Bread’s Response: No I don’t hang out in gyms. I have other things going on out of boxing. I renovate properties and I really love my children. I’m active in their lives daily. So mostly everyday I have something to do with them after the gym. I’m also big on recovery. And believe it or not, trainers need to recover and reboot daily.
It takes approximately 2 hours to train a fighter. I train about 5-6 fighters at this moment. At the end of their workouts I’m a little tired myself. So there is no need to sit around the gym talking for hours after they workout. I tell my fighters get your clothes on, get food, hydrate and go home to rest and recover. I do exactly the same thing every day. I don’t just sit in the gym for hours after they work out, I’m already there for hours while they are working out....
I played every sport as a kid and youth. I think I was equally good at baseball, basketball and football but I stuck with basketball the longest, one summer I grew 8 inches.... I boxed while in college but out of my favorite sports to watch, boxing was always my favorite and I sort of became a historian.
In 2010 Julian Williams asked me to work with him and I started to train him. I didn’t work as an apprentice. I just sort of hit the ground running. Naazim Richardson was the most accomplished trainer in our gym at the time and I observed how he talked to his fighters through the rounds. Virgil Hunter was red hot at the time with Andre Ward in the middle of his Super 6 run and I became great friends with him. So I picked up pieces of their games but again I never worked as an apprentice. When I first started training Julian he also had another coach Kenny Mason and we worked together pretty good but that only lasted until 2012. Kenny also trained me many years before when I first started out boxing myself. He was a very knowledgeable coach but again I never had someone teach me how to coach. It’s just something I picked up organically and I guess I picked up pieces from good coaches approach and I added it to my game. Subconsciously you pick up things in your environment. But even back then I didn’t hang out in the gym. But we trained everyday….So I was there working not so much hanging out.
In around 2013 Julian became a prospect of national prowess and around the same time, I sort of perfected my system and it went on from there.
Breadman, forgetting the ethics behind asking a 39 year old champion to drain down 20lbs lower than his division for a payday, would this ever be sanctioned? Have you ever seen anything like it, where a champion needs to concede that much weight that is allowable by the title governing body? Big respect to Jack for declining. Canelo has to be the most spoilt fighter I've ever seen, waiting out GGG until he aged, targeting the weakest division champions (Fielding and an old Kovalev, and an old Jack), clearly ducking fights like prime GGG/Benevidez, saying he wants to fight Bivol on the same terms, probably around an 80/20 split in his favour, even though he lost! People can see through this, true warriors/atgs like Pacquiao and Roy never did things like this, they wanted to fight the best without these crazy advantages Canelo wants, shameful.
Bread’s Response: Listen A side fighters will do their best to get an advantage. From money, to ring size, to fight location, to weight etc. If they don’t do it their teams will try. Fights are negotiated for a reason and I have no issue with it. Even Pac and Roy had catchweights. Roy had 2 I believe vs Tito Trinidad and John Ruiz. Pac had some that benefitted him some that didn’t. But his fights vs Marquez, Cotto and Margarito were catchweight fights.
So Canelo is not on an island alone. But I have never heard of 20lbs and a rehydration. I think that’s extreme. Badou Jack could’ve been killed, literally. I’m glad Jack said no. Here is the thing…..Canelo would have been the favorite even if Jack fought at 200lbs. Canelo has a lot of Roberto Duran and James Toney in his game. They can fight bigger guys better as they get older, than they can smaller quicker guys. I suspect Jack's reaction time would have been too slow for Canelo. Canelo has a great chin and he has a radar on his defense. I think he would have won even at the higher weight. I also believe the old Cruiserweight limit of 190lbs would have been a fair catchweight. But 180lbs was just extreme, plus a rehydration was downright deck stacking. Again I’m glad Jack walked away. He would’ve got hurt and hurt BAD. Oh well it’s boxing. This is a business and in business you don’t get what you’re worth. You get what you negotiate. As they say, Canelo tried it.
I pray God is blessing and continues to bless you and your family and the fans of your mailbag and their families. Wow! I’m shocked by the recent performance by Prograis vs Zorilla. I see now why Haney is targeting Prograis. At first I thought he was making a big mistake but now that looks to me to be a very competitive fight. I didn’t know that Prograis was 34 yrs. old either because he looks much younger. Zorilla showed great footwork and if he was a little busier and that knockdown had counted he could have pulled it off.
What is up with these refs missing knockdowns recently? It is bad enough with the incompetence of the judges but now the refs to. It is beyond ridiculous. I just watched Mungia vs Derevyanchenko and what a fight. I know they have been babysitting Mungia but he does have championship heart and rose to the occasion with the knockdown. I feel he still lost the fight but so did Triple G against Derevyanchenko . Derevyanchenko is reminding me of Glenn Johnson and is a true gatekeeper who gives a great effort every time out. They better work on Mungia’s defense because his head was looking like a speed bag in that fight. Appreciated the great effort of both fighters in that fight.
Definitely a fight of the year candidate. Speaking of great effort. I read the comments of some idiot in the comments section of your mailbag who said all your readers ride your jock. What a fool. We are obviously fans of the great job you do and let you know our appreciation. Since Doug Fischer is gone without you we would be in trouble and you maintain the great standard that Doug started with his mailbag. It is a shame we live in such a negative world where people are quick to criticize but slow to compliment people who do a great job. We are fans of yours and we were proud of you when you won the title with J Rock and felt bad when he lost. I’m praying some network picks you up to be an analyst because I know you would be great at it just like Emanuel Steward. All I can say Breadman is let the haters hate and you just continue to be great because it is going to all work out for you in the end. Keep doing your thing man and it is appreciated by most of us.
God bless and take care,
Blood and Guts from Philly
Bread’s Response: Here is what I do. I read my work once to see if it was printed correctly and I never read the comments on any interview or mailbag. I don’t let those comments creep into my subconscious. You shouldn’t either. Some people will like you and some won’t. As for readers riding my jock. Doesn’t that sound highschoolish.
I don’t get much write in hate anymore. But I have emails where people called me racial slurs. Said I sucked. Talked about everything they could. People have sent me links of trolls making long youtube videos trying to discredit me. And don’t even let me talk about twitter. I’ve managed to live through it all, lol.
The one thing I know about people who can’t respectfully disagree and can only insult on social media is that they’re jealous cowards in real life. 99% don’t use their real name or real identity that tells you something. So over criticizing people who are enjoying their lives is their only refuge. They live in misery. So imagine how bad it is for your life to suck so much that you follow and stalk someone that you don’t like. Whoever I don’t like I simply distance myself from them.
I appreciate you rocking with me but you don’t even have to tell me what “THEY” said. I don’t care. My life is great and no one or nothing can lower my self esteem.
Yes man Regis had a bad night. I think his opponent had something to do with it. But I also think Regis does too much defensively to avoid punches. It’s easy to take him out of position. Regis doesn’t keep it simple. He bends, slides and contorts his body to avoid shots but while doing so it's hard for him track down a moving opponent.
With his current style, Devin Haney and Teofimo Lopez would be nightmares for Regis. But let’s not write Regis off. Remember Teofimo didn’t look great vs Martin and then look what he did vs Taylor. Lot’s of things play into a bad performance. Regis seems to be a student of the game. He also has a coach who I think is very good. They can adjust and improve.
Munguia vs SD was a definite FOY candidate. Naked eye I also think SD won. I feel for the dude. Munguia will get offered every big fight imaginable. Let’s see who he fights. A vulnerable, undefeated, big punching but defensively limited fighter with a big fan base like Munguia, is never in search of opponents. Trust that. Munguia can literally make any fight he wants from 160-168. I’m curious to see who he says yes to. If he fights David Benavidez he’s going to get beat up really bad. Mark that down.
You guys keep bringing up that network job. I’m still waiting. Let’s have it.
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