The Daily Bread Mailbag returns with Stephen "Breadman" Edwards tackling topics such as Vasilliy Lomachenko's big comeback win, the upcoming unification between Jermell Charlo and Brian Castano, the record of Artur Beterbiev, Shakur Stevenson vs. Jamel Herring, and more.

I’ve asked you in the past about the best wins in boxing. You’ve gone on record stating you believe that Duran’s win over Leonard is the best win in boxing history. But I wanted to ask a slightly different question: What are some fights you think would’ve surpassed that win if it had gone the other way? I know that might be a very broad question, but I’ve been pondering it for a while.

One that I can think of that might have an argument is Pryor-Arguello. If Arguello had beaten Pryor, he would’ve been the first four-division champ ever… am I remembering that correctly? Could that have been one of the best wins if it had gone the other way? I also wonder about Hopkins-Trinidad. I know Trinidad was the favorite for that fight, but what if he’d won that one? What are some other what-if big wins you think of?

Greg K.

Bread’s Response: If I said Duran W over Leonard was the best in history then I was typing too fast. What I meant was it could possibly be the best win in history. It’s high up there. It's among the best. As is Leonard over Hearns1. Ali over Foreman. Frazier over Ali1 and Armstrong over Ross. Along with Duran over Leonard 1, those are most likely the 5 best wins in boxing history. 

If Arguello would have defeated Aaron Pryor in 1982 he would have won 4 titles before Leonard in 1988, Duran in 1989 and Hearns in 1987. It would’ve been huge. To defeat and undefeated top 10 P4P fighter the caliber of Pryor in his prime would have been amazing and no doubt a top 10 win in boxing history. 

If Tito would have defeated Hopkins it would’ve been something. Tito’s “off night” vs Oscar would have dismissed as an off night. Hopkins had been champion since 1995 and considered an excellent fighter. It would’ve also been for 3 belts the WBA, WBC and IBF. I don’t know if it would’ve been bigger than Arguello over Pryor but it would’ve been huge. Because for as great as we view Hopkins now, in 2001 he had not received the respect he has today from the boxing community. Hopkins WIN over Tito is actually bigger than Tito’s hypothetical win over Hopkins.

If Pernell Whitaker would have gotten the official decision over Julio Cesar Chavez then it would have simply been the best win of the 90s. It’s a shame Whitaker didn’t get the official verdict.

I saw your comment about Sha’Carri Richardson and I can’t help but to think she was set up. Marijuana is legal in the state she smoked in and it shouldn’t be illegal to smoke by Olympic standards. I know you’re a fair dude Bread but we disagree on this. On another topic do fighters get tested for marijuana also?

Bread’s Response: First of all yes boxers do get tested for marijuana. In fact there have been fighters who have had wins turned into NC because of positive marijuana results. Let me preface my comments about Ms. Richardson. I would love to see her compete and win. My daughter runs the 100m, 200m and 400m. Richardson is from the USA and I want to see her beat the Jamaicans who have had a strong hold on the sprints. 

Now what I said is the people are using the WRONG argument to defend her. I would love to see marijuana not be on the BANNED list. But the fact is, it’s on the list and the committee has their reasons why. They believe it slows the reaction time which can be dangerous on the track. They also believe it sets a bad example for younger athletes and it can be used as a MASKING agent for more powerful substances. These aren’t my rules. These are the rules of the testing agency. Ms. Richardson was well aware. 

The best argument that can be used is that marijuana should not be on the banned substance list. Period. The rule is archaic and it shouldn’t be in existence anymore. The arguments I keep hearing is “keep that same energy yall had with Michael Phelps.” And that Sha’Carri Richardson was SET UP. Those are ridiculous arguments. When you’re wrong. Ask for GRACE. Be accountable and hopefully things work out. First let’s address the Michael Phelps case. Phelps didn’t test positive for marijuana. A photo surfaced of him 6 months AFTER the Olympics smoking a BONG. Phelps was suspended for 3 months and lost sponsorship. He could’ve fought that but he didn’t. There would be no way to prove what was in the BONG despite us knowing and using common sense what it was. Remember it’s not what you know, it’s what you can prove. You can’t compare that to Richardson testing positive a month before the Olympics. It’s just not the same. Remember I want Richardson to win, but we look foolish making WRONG points. At least research before you say ridiculous stuff. 

When I first read that she tested positive I said to myself maybe she used a topical solution for muscle soreness and instead of having CBD in it, it had THC in it. I was literally making excuses for her because I couldn’t believe the press head lines. To hear her say, she knows what the rules were. She did it because of the stress of her mom dying, there was nothing I or anyone else could say. This wasn’t a MISTAKE, it was poor judgment.

When you use the word set up you better be careful. I have seen black athletes put through hard times or be held to a higher standard than other athletes. I have seen injustice. In this case a young lady suffered bad news and she decided to smoke marijuana, despite knowing the rules. In order for her to have been set up the committee would have had to have a hand in her mother dying and/or know that Richardson would smoke to relieve stress. Do you see how ridiculous that sounds?

Also illegal and banned have two different meanings. Marijuana is a banned substance. It can be legal in Oregon but it’s banned to use during or around competition. Please stop conflating the meanings. Let’s just hope they remove the ban all together and allow her run. But no it wasn’t a set up. And no this is not the same as the Michael Phelps case. It’s ok to support Sha’Carri Richardson and still hold her accountable.  She didn’t use a steroid but unfortunately as of now, marijuana is banned. 

Hi Bread,

Hope you and your family are doing well. My question to you is regarding Loma and his latest fight against Nakatani.

During the week leading to the fight, Loma and his team let everybody know that he had an injury in camp, 3 weeks before the Teo fight. Loma's manager said that Papachenko wanted to postpone the fight (which Loma refused), and that Loma's right shoulder popped in the 2nd round after a jab (he only really used his right hand again starting in the 7th round, supposedly when he understood that he would lose otherwise).It was obvious that Loma chose Nakatani to send a message to Teofimo and the world, and God knows that the message has been received !Besides being a "vintage Loma performance", as Tim Bradley said, I have to admit that I've never seen Loma with that big of a chip on his shoulder from the get go (we've seen glimpses of it when he was hit clean/hurt by Linares or Campbell, for example).

He started letting his hands go after only half a round of assessing his opponent. It was obvious that his objectives in this fight was to show that he could takeover early (proof that he's learnt from his loss), and to hurt and stop Nakatani. What is your analysis of this fight ? And what do you think are the keys to victory for each fighter in the Loma/Lopez rematch?

Thanks and greetings from North Africa.

Bread’s Response: I thought Loma looked excellent. But reoccurring injuries are part of the game. This is not the first time Loma has been hurt. I honestly felt he dug so deep in the Linares fight, he hasn’t quite reached that form again since that night. This last performance was very close but Nakatani is too slow and gangly to deal with Loma, so this may be a case of the perfect style coupled with a motivated fighter coming off of a loss. I think Lopez needs to do what he did in the their first fight. Put rounds in the bank and keep the fight at long range for as long as he can. It’s not just height and reach. Lopez is not that much taller and longer than Loma. But he has a more commanding presence from Long range and he has to build points before Loma gets in his groove. 

This match up could be a case of Jermaine Taylor vs Bernard Hopkins. Where as for some reason it took Hopkins time to break the range vs Taylor. Hopkins is clearly a better fighter than Taylor but Taylor who was excellent just gave him fits. We don’t know how good Lopez will be yet….but that comparison comes to mind. 

Loma can say what he wants but Teofimo’s sharpness and power bothered him. It takes his body and mind time to warm up to Teofimo. He shoulder probably was hurt. I don’t doubt that. But I also know what I saw. Teofimo came out sharp, mean and forceful. Loma needed time to adjust to that. He didn’t want to get clipped. In this rematch he simply has to find a safe way to break the range earlier and get in his rhythm. It’s not as easy as everyone says of “just start earlier”. Well Teofimo has something to say about that. I think Loma has to work on his quickness in camp and find a way to get his jab working a little bit more. A jab finds rhythms and breaks rhythms. 

Emile Griffith, not Griffin. Valdes was very underrated.  He lost a few early because he had mono and went back to Colombia to get better. I feared him more than I feared Monzon even though Monzon was the better fighter.  Valdes often fought to the level of his competition. Bennie matched up well with taller guys because of his jab, which was almost like a straight left and tall guys were not ready for it and had trouble getting accustomed to it. Valdes should have been in Canastota by now.

There are guys in there who don't have his credentials but many of today's voters are imbeciles.

Bread’s response: Thank you for the correction. The editor’s should have caught my mistake, lol. I love it when my old school readers write in to put me in my place and give me wisdom. I receive it with open arms. Let’s show some love for Rodrigo Valdes who is a top 2 or 3 middleweight of the 70s. I’ve watched a few of his fights and he could go! For some reason he had Brsicoe’s number the Philadelphia legend would have been champion if he could have figured out Valdes. Valdes beat Briscoe 3x and stopped him once. 2x with the title on the line. 

Hey Bread,

Love your work mate and your knowledge and insight on the mailbag each week just a couple of questions firstly on Canelo, although I admire the guy as he is a tremendous fighter, it puzzles me why he has gone on record in several interviews stating he will not face other Mexican fighters in the ring again he obviously has the star power and right to choose to face who ever he wants but I cant work out why? Do you have any ideas?

If an American or British fighter said they wouldn't fight one of their own countrymen anymore they would be laughed at. Is it a case of him not wanting to spill Mexican blood on the canvas or some sort of patriotic thing I don't know  I think fights with the likes  of Gilberto Ramirez or Munguia would be absolutely huge especially on the Mexican holiday weekends! Also everyone seems to think he's going to walk right thru plant if and when the fight gets made but I have my doubts I think this will be one or if not the toughest fight of his career to steal  a quote of the first rocky movie  This man is dangerous and I think the last piece of the puzzle for Canelo at super mw will be the most risky fight for him.  

Kind regards!  

B from Western Sydney Australia 

Bread’s Response: I never heard Canelo say that he wouldn’t fight a Mexican fighter. I know he’s fought a few in his career, Chavez Jr., Angulo etc. So I would have to read the context in how he said that. Munguia and Ramirez are nice opponents for him but the bigger opponents are Charlo, Andrade, Beterbiev and Plant. Then there is also David Benavidez who is Mexican American and wants the fight. If Benavidez beats one of the fighters I mentioned and earns a shot at Canelo, Canelo won’t be able to use that excuse. Let’s see what happens. I never read or heard Canelo say that. 

I also believe that Caleb Plant will be a tough opponent for Canelo. Plant is better than Saunders. He’s taller, longer, faster and I believe he’s mentally tougher. I also see that he’s a more dedicated athlete. When you have extreme dedication you are willing to go through more to get the glory because you know you haven't cheated the grind. A fighter who gives his all at all times. A fighter who restricts his diet. A fighter who does all of the little things, will fight through those moments of crisis harder. I believe Plant is one of those fighters. 

Obviously Plant will have to be better than he was vs Uzgategui and Truax. But I think he will be. Obviously he’s going to have to be stronger and not be bullied to the ropes. But I think he will be. Obviously Canelo has a serious heavybag routine where he punches THROUGH the target and Plant has to be aware of this. But I think he will be. I believe if Plant fights an ON THE MOVE fight. Oscar Valdez just fought one vs Berchelt but Plant has to be less violent than Valdez. Mayweather fought one vs Diego Corrales. Sambu Kalambay fought one vs Mike McCallum in their first fight. Muhammad Ali fought the best one in history vs Cleveland Williams. 

If Plant can punch on the move he will frustrate Canelo. He’s going to score points. And most importantly, he will force Canelo to burn loads of energy by having to use his OWN legs to track him down. Canelo fights an energy efficient fight these days. His pressure is not like Joe Frazier’s or Henry Armstrong’s. It’s been said that Canelo’s stamina has improved. Well if Plant fights this type of fight, then that theory will be put to the test. This fight will come down to what style Plant decides to fight. There are fights I can see. There are fights I have to wait and see and assess later. Plant’s best chance to win is Stick and Move and not try to hit Canelo with anything big. The harder you try to punch Canelo the easier it is for him to counter. Plant has to throw fast stick punches. Sort of like how Calzaghe punches but obviously in his own form and body type. Jab Canelo's gloves, jab to distract him. Feint him. Move him around. Stay off the ropes. When Canelo presses him if he can’t hold the center, move until Canelo stops pressuring then go back to the center. Forget about the crowd. Just win baby. If he fights that fight. People will be pissed but the WIN for this fight is HUGE.

I give you props for telling your truth about the fallout with Jrock. I still think you guys are better together and not apart. The young brother may be lost and it’s going to take some pride swallowing to resurrect the relationship. My question is assuming you aren’t training him, do you think he has a shot at the Charlo vs Castano winner? I’ve always been a big fan of his. I’ve watched several of his fights and that wasn’t him in the ring against Rosario.

Bread’s Response: Yes I do think Jrock has a shot at the winner. It basically comes down to a few things. How engaged he is with his new trainer. Traveling to train is a load mentally and physically. If he can find someone to run a productive camp and figure out his body he has a shot. People always say he’s too small for 154lbs which is ridiculous. He’s big for the weight. He may not be the BIGGEST but he’s big for the weight. He has big quads, broad shoulders and a wide back. He’s 5’10.5” with very long arms of over 73 inches. He walks around heavy just like the rest of the guys in the division and he has to cut 25lbs-30lbs just like everyone else. If he finds someone to learn his body and know when to peak him out right, he’s right with those guys. The key is learning his body. He has very low body fat and he hasn’t made 154lbs in a year and a half. He may not even be a junior middleweight anymore. 

Stylistically he matches up well with both guys. At his best he’s turned in a better performance than both ever have. So his high is higher than their highs have been. The issue is, is his low. He’s also turned in a lower performance than they ever have. The key will be his confidence and a trainer who is open to learning his body. It won’t be easy but far from impossible. Jrock would have been the favorite to beat both if the fights were made after he defeated Hurd. 

I was going to bet Jermell Charlo but then you brought up how good Brian Castano was an amateur. You were right. He did beat Spence and Devrenchenko. My question is how much do you think amateur success translates to pro success?

Bread’s Response: I would say 75% of the time it has a bearing. Usually the best amateurs are the best pros. Over the last 10 years it hasn’t been the case as much but it still relevant. Let’s look back. People consider Sugar Ray Robinson the best fighter ever. The Olympics weren’t as big in boxing in the 1940s. But Robinson was either 85-2 or 85-0 as an amateur. 

Floyd Patterson was a great amateur. Our best in 1952. And he was one of our best fighters of the 50s. Muhammad Ali was our best amateur in 1960. Well it’s no need to get into what he was as a pro. Joe Frazier was our best amateur in 1964. We also know what he was as a pro. George Foreman was our best amateur in 1968. Again HOF as a pro. In 3 straight Olympics the Gold Medalist and the US’s best fighter turned out to be a HOF. 

In 1976 we produced 5 Gold Medalist. 3 won titles. 2 became ATG in Michael Spinks and Ray Leonard. In 1980 Donald Curry was best amateur. He went on to be a HOF. In 1984 Evander Holyfield, Frank Tate, Pernell Whitaker, Meldrick Taylor, Mark Breland and Virgil Hill were medalist and turned out to be champions and or HOF as pros. In 1988 Roy Jones, Riddick Bowe, Michael Carbajal and Ray Mercer all medalist all turned out to be champions. Carbajal, Jones and Bowe HOF. In 1992 Oscar de La Hoya was our best amateur. HOF as a pro. 

In 1996 Floyd Mayweather, Antonio Tarver, David Reid all won medals. All win titles as pros. 2004 we had one Gold Medalist. Andre Ward. HOF as a pro. 2008 Gary Russell, Demetrius Andrade and Deontay Wilder were the best fighters on the Olympic team. They still remain towards the top of their games today. In almost 100 fights as pros they have 2 losses.

In 2012 Errol Spence was the best fighter on that team. He’s still the best from the team. 

In 2016 Shakur Stevenson, Gary Russell and Charles Conwell were the standouts. None of them have taken a loss yet. Stevenson the only medalist is the best so far as a pro.

Historically domestically and internationally the very best amateurs have about 75% of the time been our best pros. You do have cases like Terence Crawford who was around the 2008 team. He’s our best fighter overall from that time. You have cases of fighters like Canelo Alvarez, Manny Pacquiao and Julio Cesar Chavez who were the #1 P4P fighters that didn’t have distinguished amateur careers. But that’s because they weren’t exposed. With Pacquiao’s style he would have been an unbelievable amateur. He just didn’t have the exposure. Amateur doesn’t mean everyTHING. But it does mean someTHING. 

Lately we have had excellent fighters like Jarrett Hurd, Charlo bros and David Benavidez have better pro careers than many fighters who turned pro at a similar time who were better amateurs. But again 75% of the time, the better amateur is usually the better pro. In the other 25% of the time, it’s usually because of late blooming physical maturity. Or exposure to an elite trainer. The better amateur will usually have more reflexive ability. He will usually be able to score points better. He will also be able to process slightly faster. The same goes for some of the better international amateurs. Rigondeaux, Lara, Loma, Usyk, Beterbiev, GGG….

When I see a US fighter ascend to really high heights that never won at least one national tournament and was not a highly decorated amateur it really impresses me. It lets me know he had elite training. He really put the work in. And he had will power to overcome his early outlook. 

Jermell Charlo has already defeated Austin Trout and Erickson Lubin. Both were better amateurs than him. So obviously it doesn’t mean everything. But Castano can really score points. He has quick productive feet. He’s stronger than he looks. He’s very fluid. And he can box going forward. I repeat. Charlo deserves to be the favorite. He’s been performing at a high level since 2016. He’s been money in his title fights. But he doesn’t dominate as far as rounds scored. In his title win vs John Jackson, I saw him lose 6 out of 7 scored rounds. I saw Austin Trout win possible 6 rounds against him but the knockdowns were the difference. I saw Tony Harrison win at least half of the 22 scored rounds they fought. I saw Jeison Rosario win most of the rounds he wasn’t dropped in. Charlo is efficient. He knows what he wants to do. He wants to knock his opponents out. He moves in and out with a great set legs and he has elite timing.  Charlo turned pro very early so he didn’t have a chance to really compete in open class. So maybe he would’ve been a great amateur. But I can only go by what happened not what would’ve happened. 

This is a really close fight. I feel that if it goes the distance Castano has a great chance to win. But Charlo rarely lets fighters go the distance at the championship level. Only Austin Trout and Tony Harrison did. Harrison was stopped in the rematch and Trout was dropped twice. Castano is unknown so most will pick Charlo big. But I can’t help what I see. I still favor Charlo as of now but this fight is close. I wouldn’t bet big either way to be honest. 

Hi Bread,

As a young boxing fan from the UK, reading your insight has been fascinating over the past couple of years. I hope you and your family are well.

Firstly, how much stock do you put in Olympic achievement/performance? As a Brit, obviously AJ is the top of the tree, but there have been several who have disappointed professionally.

Also, who do you rate as the best British prospect on your radar? For me, Daniel Dubois has the most P4P, but I do feel that Laurence Okolie is criminally underrated.

Thanks, Dan Manchester, UK

Bread’s Response: Everyone is asking about amateur success. I put about 75% stock in amateur success. I trained a fighter who never made to the finals of a national tournament and I won a world title with him as a pro. So you won’t hear me say, that you have to be a great amateur. But I do believe that at the very special elite level. Most times that special fighter was an elite amateur. Obviously there will be some exceptions.

The UK has had several disappointing amateur stars. Audley Harrison being one I can think of. And sometimes there are amateurs like Amir Khan who had excellent pro careers but they didn’t ascend to where people thought they were going because of nuances. In a 3 round fight with Khan’s speed and pedigree he’s very difficult to beat in his physical prime. But with no head gear and the stress of a 12 round fight, he’s not nearly as good. That’s why I say 75%. But you do have cases where you have fighters like Khan who aren’t better pros than say a fighter like Carl Froch, who is not as athletic but has many more qualities that benefit him in a 12 round fight. 

Hey Bread. You know it's a rare thing in boxing to have 100% KO ratio, especially in lower weight classes.  I mean perfect KO ratio consisting of more or less tough opposition, cause as we all know one can make ideal KO record battering journeymen & gatekeepers all life long. Of the high tier boxers that comes to mind first - Artur Beterbiev, Virgil Ortiz Jr, Edwin Valero of the past. 

Bread’s Response: I like this question. As of right at this moment I think Beterbiev’s ko ratio is the most impressive out of the guys you named. Valero was a talented fighter but he didn’t have a deep resume. A lot of the myth that surrounds him is from the gym stories. Vergil Ortiz has a lovely ko% but he’s still a prospect. 

Current high ko% that are think are real. Tank Davis. In 25 fights only 1 man has been able to make the distance. That’s impressive. If you watch Tank closely he’s a ko machine. His % is real and not manufactured. Tank has kod 5 men who were NEVER kod before. That’s very telling when you speak of a real ko puncher. Obviously Monster Inoue’s ko % is real. He scores kos in just about every fight. Both hands and to the head and body. I personally am not a big fan of 100% ko %. Most times it’s due to matchmaking with a heavy handed fighter and as soon as they step up they start going the distance consistently. It’s often smoke and mirrors. I can remember Julian Jackson and John Mugabi coming along. Both of their ko% were real. They were both life changing punchers as prospects and top level fighter. How they never fought by the I have no idea. Some weight. Same age. Same era.  

It looks like Jamel Herring will fight Shakur Stevenson. What are your thoughts on the fight? It seems as thought Stevenson works very close with Herring’s trainers. Is that something that would you bother you personally. They use the same gym and he even does work with Herring’s trainers. Is there a conflict of interest?

But whose body of work do you view as the most imposing, whose KO victims were more dangerous and complete fighters? I'm going with Beterbiev out of these three. Artur Beterbiev has Gvozdyk on his resume, who was the world champion and considered the best of the division at the time he thought him, Callum Johnson - another dangerous striker like him, Radivoje Kalajdzic - not bad, he did good with Marcus Browne and many thought he even won that night. All three were unbeaten at the time. For the other two I can see only one top name in their respective resumes. Edwin Valero had Antonio DeMarco, Vergil Ortiz Jr.'s only credible opponent so far is Maurice Hooker. So what is YOUR opinion?

P.S.  One guy's record especially caught my eye. A Russian heavyweight Rostislav Plechko - 13/13/0  All the 13 KOs of which were made in the first round.

Regards, Eric

Bread’s Response: I don’t even like to talk about fights in this era until they get made. But if they do fight much respect to Herring. He seemed to want the Valdez unification but since it’s not available he’s taking a tough fight where he would be the underdog. Shakur’s style is very tough for Herring because of the speed disadvantage. Herring is a nice technical boxer but he’s not super athletic or fast. So to fight a fighter more than a decade younger with Shakur’s speed and reaction time, is really tough. I have seen this similar match up over and over in the gym and it usually favors the younger fighter. If Herring can win this fight, he should be in the running for FOY. That’s how hard a fight this is for him stylistically. Herring has a loss on his record to a fighter named Ladarious Miller. I saw that fight. It wasn’t that Miller is so much better than Herring. It was a really bad style match up for the older Herring. Stevenson is considerably more talented than Miller is. Very tough for Jamel, I will give him major props if he takes this fight.

 Is there a conflict of interest? As far as who? I don’t know. I know Red Spikes and Brian Mcyntire and both are very professional trainers. If anything I think it may be a conflict for Jamel with his team being so close to Shakur. But maybe they call can handle it. I haven’t been around them in this capacity to see the dynamic. Out of the fighters I have trainer, it would be an issue. They wouldn’t like it but maybe Herring is different. Everyone views things from their own eyes. Terence Crawford seems to be very close with both fighters. I’ve seen him walk both to the ring. As a friend an ALPHA fighter of their crew I can imagine it would be tough on him to support one and possibly offend the others. Good question I will keep an eye out for this from up until they fight, if they fight.

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